money worries of a dentist

Shazza has the sum of it here I think. This is the same of any career/industry.

Life is pretty much a pyramid scheme built and designed around "scarcity". For this system to work - one person has to be on the top, and many have to be on the bottom. Example - 1st world country i.e. western world VS 3rd world country i.e. parts of India.

The ones on the bottom are going to be understandably peed off. They are on the bottom and have the worst lot out of the whole society. That is how the worlds system of social and economic order works.

It continually frustrates me that people moan about their own lot. 1. there is always someone worst of than you and 2. If, you are that unhappy with your lot - change it. Improve yourself and get to the top of the pyramind. It is not impossible...Lord Allan Sugar....Sir Richard Branson....

Just a thought.

As I've said in another thread, its my opinion. Dentistry is on it knees when you have millions of people who can't access NHS dentistry and are taking matters into their own hands i.e DIY dentistry.

After working as dn for 17 years, little or nothing has changed except for the fact that I now have to pay the GDC the pleasure for having to to work as Dental nurse.

The one universal complaint that all dental nurses have is about their salary or lack of it. This will never change. No dentist is going to pay a member of staff, 25k+ who makes no clinical decisions. BADN can't or won't get involved, the GDC and your local PCT have nothing to do with what you earn.

If your boss valued you and your work, you would not be on this forum questioning pay,sick pay,pensions, etc......you would have access to all this.

I agree with Toots. I don't like making sweeping generalisations but I can only go from experience.

I think the attitude of corporate companies towards dental nurses is particularly damaging to our career and I forsee that they will be the biggest, if not the only barrier that we are going to face when it comes to changing the scale in which nurses get paid.

I have worked for three of the largest corporate companies in the UK (not naming names but you can probably guess) and in my experience, they treat dental nurses as throwaway staff members. Surprising really considering the shortage of nurses. They pay their trainees minimum wage and their qualified nurses not much more and some of the dentists they expect us to work with and to treat patients is shocking really. The practice I currently work in has had its books open for a little while and we have had no short of a mass walkout of the local corporate practice and in through our doors!

I think they have taken advantage of the recession and are snapping up failing dental practices and taking them under their wings, which is no good for us. I find the integrity and genuine care for patients of an independent practice owner far more endearing than the machine that is a corporate.

I've probably gone completely off topic, but basically - I think our biggest obstacle will be changing the attitudes of these brutes, not expecting Dr. Smith - Principle of Independent/Private practice to take pity on us and throw a few extra quid our way.

Agree with toots on this one. Not all dentists are just in it for the money. Obviously the money is a big part of it. Isn't that what we all go to work for!? And they have spent 6 years training for their career. I can hand on heart tho say that the dentist I work with cares very much about his patients. For example he still does home visits for patients even tho he doesn't get paid for them under our new contract. Also our whole practice works very hard to adhere to every me w regulation that is thrown at us with regular staff training. Dentistry is certainly not on it's knees where I work .

Unless you know every single dentist in the uk how can you possibly know that they are all greedy, money grabbers who have little regard for the regulations. Some take the regulations very seriously.

Some Dental Nurses do get a diabolical renumeration package and working conditions which needs to be improved. But things will not change unless as a body we can raise the role of the dental nurses profile in both the eyes of dentists and of the patients. The BADN is suppose to do this for us but unfortunately fall far short of the mark.


Firstly a pay structure needs to be agreed which includes regular pay rises. However, this must be realistic and have a strategy that increases steadily for example we will not go from £8.50 per hour to £15 per hour over night.

Secondly benefits, ARF, indemnity, CPD, pension scheme, possible health cover eg BUPA, PPP etc..... Sick pay

We must also consider what a dentist can expect from us which will make his practice more profitable and help change the dentists view as a whole as to our role.

Instead of making sweeping statements about dentist try putting forward ideas for change then maybe as a group we can work towards making change happen

Dentists are only interested in making sure their cars and holiday homes in france and spain are paid for. They have little or no interest in regulations being adhered to or that their staff/patients are happy. Dentistry in the UK is on it knees.

I have to say, this is something that has always been on my mind!

I sometimes feel like I'm subsidising the lovely cushty lifestyles the dentists lead. The private schools they all send their children to, the expensive cars they drive around in, the beautiful houses they live in, the thousands of kids they sprout, the lavish holidays.

They do moan and moan, but if they had to live on our wages - I think they would be more appreciative of the wages they get every month. I can't even afford to buy my own house, I have credit card bills coming out my ears and I don't even get paid if I'm ill.

I used to work with a dentist who treated his patients like absoloute crap. He was rough, rude, unkind, stroppy, messy, arrogant and greedy. He was SO protective of how much he got paid a month, he didn't want staff to know because of whatever reason? I don't know - I think he was actually embarassed that he got paid as much as he did compared to us. (He once dropped his cheque in the street and a patient brought it back - LOL)

The dentists I work with now though work VERY hard for their money. But unfortunately no exception to the rule when it comes to paying nurses a fairer wage

I think dentists are just going with the average when it comes to dental nurses pay, its up to us to change this because they're not going to do it off their own back!

There are some greedy dentists who think very little about any of the staff they employ but they are not trying to get as many UDA's as they possibly can. Under the current contract the dentist has negotiated a fee per UDA and agreed to complete a set amount within a twelve month period. If he/she has a shortfall they have to repay the difference to the local PCT, if they do too many, then tough, you do not get paid for them. If they have used up all their UDA say in nine months, he cannot refuse to see anymore NHS patients as he/she has a duty of care and must see any patient under the terms of the contract.

I am a dental nurse who used to be a practice manager and took part in the negotiations. Not all dentists are greedy, some are not but you get that in all walks of life. I am fortunate at my practice as the dentist pays all his dental nurses ARF. My argument when registration came in was that the pracctice should pay the ARF because better to have reliable, motivated staff rather than have to pay to train new staff continually. It is set up so that if a member of staff leaves within the 12 months period then the nurse repays the difference left to run on the registration.

All dental nurses need to write down their outgoings in regard to staying registered:-

ARF fee, this is tax deductable
CPD fees per annum,
Indemnity insurance
BADN registration (if you are a member)

And present these cost to your Principal Dentist or Practice Manager(if they are in a position to authorize pay rises or additional payments, not all are) and negotiate for better pay and getting these paid for with a view to repay any difference if you leave within a 12 month period. Not repayable if they sack you though.

I think dentists and practice owners are a greedy bunch, yes I know they have bills to pay ect but so do others, they make their money up by chargeing what they like for private work, they work the nhs system to get as many uda's as they can. But they are a tight bunch when it comes to paying the nurses a decent wage and giving pay rises ect. All we are to them are glorified cleaners who have to now pay for the privilage of working. A lot of dentists don't appreciate us hard working nurses, I know of quite a few who think they are so much above us nurses. You do get the ones that appreciate us but they are a very rear breed indeed, and very far a few between.

So please dont talk about the money worries of the greedy dentisits. Think of us nurses

Bagged instruments can only go through vacuum autoclaves not steam and instruments should not touch.

With the new sterilisation regulations htm01-05 coming into force in January 2011 dentists are understandably worried about the costs involved in becoming compliant.

With the installation of a central sterilisation room which is to include washer disinfecters, ultra sonic cleaners, hand piece cleaners autoclaves and the training of all staff in the correct procedures the costs are in excess of £30000 with no grants.

Dentist worry about the cost of everything because wastage eats into their profits and therefore their earnings.

why is it that all dentists (in my experience) are all so worried about money or lack of it !! ,they always moan how expensive dental equipment, materials etc are and the fact that they have to fork out for waste disposal , then we get moaned at for mixing too much of an expensive material !

is it drummed into them at dental school that they have to become overly obsessive about money ?? i thought i'd share this with you as i still can't quite get my brain around this but i found myself having a conversation with a dentist about sterilization pouches ,and the cost of bagging up all the instruments . they had this idea that it would be more cost effective and better all round for the instruments to be put into "plastic zip bags from waitrose as there wouldn't be any moisture for bacteria to grow on wet paper pouches " as you may guess we have an ancient non vacum autoclave i think the model is a little sister 2 i am in the process of trying to find out if we can put bagged up instrument through this autoclave as i have been told we can't by the principal if anyone know of where i can find this out will be very grateful so i can show her